I’m writing this post because I just cannot NOT do it. I generally keep this blog lighthearted and not serious but this subject is literally close to home. If religion and religious beliefs and choices topics bother you then don’t read any farther because I don’t want the comment section to turn into a battle ground. If you can discuss this topic open mindedly then feel free to read on and comment.
Religion and Abortions
As you have probably seen in the local and national news, Dr. George Tiller was murdered at his church on Sunday, May 31, 2009 in Wichita KS.
Info from Wikipedia.com:
George Richard Tiller, MD (August 8, 1941 – May 31, 2009[4][5]) was a physician from Wichita, Kansas. He was the medical director of a clinic in Wichita, Women’s Health Care Services, one of only three nationwide which self-identified as providing abortions after the 21st week of pregnancy (known as late-term abortion).[6]
I will state up front that I am pro-choice though I do not believe that abortions should be an acceptable form of birth control and I do not advocate them. If you are going to be a sexually active adult then you should use birth control practices to avoid unwanted pregnancies or abstain from sex. I believe that if you have an “ooops” pregnancy you should have the child and either raise it or give it up for adoption. But, having said that, I believe strongly that there are reasons for abortions such as in the cases of incest, rape, severe birth defects etc. that warrant the freedom of choosing what to do in these situations.
I was once in the position (due to abuse) to have worry about whether or not I was going to have to make this decision and it is not any easy one on any level but I would not have wanted someone to be able to decide this issue for me. I luckily was spared having to make this choice.
I have one statement about abortions. If you don’t believe in them as being morally or religiously acceptable then don’t have one. No one knows why any woman chooses to have an abortion but it is her business, her choice and her problem concerning religious matters.
I have personally dealt with groups like “Operation Rescue” and their obnoxious practices in protesting Women’s health clinics since I once lived a block away from one. The members of this group literally attacked people walking down the street by shoving their graphic protest signs of fetuses in your face and vilifying you for not joining them or demanding to know if you were going into the clinic. These clinics provide all sorts of women’s healthcare services besides abortions. These clinics are heavily used by women without a lot of financial means. Dr. Tiller did provide abortions, but these are legal in Kansas.
Dr. Tiller has had his clinics bombed and he was shot once in 1993 during the “Summer of Rescue” which was perpetrated by “Operation Rescue” but he survived these attacks. This “rescue” effected more than Dr. Tiller as this religious group was a band of rabid beasts that turned Wichita into a total mess for the entire summer. Living by the clinic was horrible. You could not escape these people who I could only describe as overly conservative, manic religious wingnuts that seemed to believe that if you didn’t agree with them then you were going to hell and were fair game.
Dr. Tiller’s clinic is now closed as just announced on the local news today. Protesters are happy and an unfortunately large number of anti-abortionists are hailing his killer as a “hero” and an obvious martyr for the cause. How can we deal with people who think that the death of Dr. Tiller is acceptable from a moral, religious standard? How could anyone be proud of this action?
Any religious group that goes to any extreme, be they a Christian, Jewish, Islamic or whatever religion is dangerous because they believe that God is on their side and they can do no wrong. How else can you explain the actions of supposedly religious individuals deciding it is OK to shoot Dr. Tiller – in his own church on a Sunday – as being justifiable because he was a “baby killer” and needed to be stopped? Was it OK for anti-abortion groups to have a protest nationwide scheduled on the day of Dr. Tiller’s funeral?
Again from Wikipedia:
Southern Baptist minister and radio host Wiley Drake said, “I am glad that he is dead.”[45][46] Reason columnist Jacob Sullum wrote, “if you honestly believe abortion is the murder of helpless children, it’s hard to see why using deadly force against those who carry it out is immoral, especially since the government refuses to act.[47
Supposedly, upstanding, religious people who say murder is wrong yet it is OK to murder anyone you think you should because you don’t believe in what they do even if it is legal? These groups are now protesting against the birth control pills stating that “the Pill – Kills” so are they going to target any woman that uses birth control pills and kill them?
Are we living in the 21st century or another era where women were supposed to stay home and have as many children as “God” chooses to give her? This is no longer just an issue of just abortions; this is becoming an issue of whether or not women are allowed to choose whether to have children when and if they want them and is and should be a fundamental right of all women and not something decided by religious zealots.
Religion, Gays and Tattoos - Oh My!
Kansas is unfortunately the home to one of the worst religious wingnut groups out there, the followers of Fred Phelps, pastor of the “Westboro Baptist Church” from Topeka, KS
Thanks again Wikipedia:
Fred Waldron Phelps, Sr. (born November 13, 1929) is an American pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), an independent Baptist church based in Topeka, Kansas.[1][2][3][4][5][6] His church is monitored as a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League and Southern Poverty Law Center.[7][8][9] He is a disbarred lawyer, founder of the Phelps Chartered law firm and previous candidate for political office and was a civil rights activist in Kansas. He and his daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, are banned from entering the United Kingdom. He and his family are currently notorious for their anti-gay protests, claiming that most natural disasters and terrorist attacks are God‘s punishment for a society that tolerates homosexuality.
He is known for the slogans that he and his ministry use against people he deems sinful, including “God Hates Fags“, “Thank God for Dead Soldiers”, “America Is Doomed” and “Priests Rape Boys.” He claims that God will punish homosexuals as well as various public figures such as Bill O’Reilly, Coretta Scott King, Ronald Reagan, Howard Dean, and anyone else whom his church considers “fag-enablers”.[10][11]
Phelps and his group have been at many, many public events here in the Wichita area and their protest signs are some of the vilest, poisonous and hate filled messages I have ever seen in my life. They come down and stand on main traffic street corners showering people with their hate.
This is a church group for goodness sakes that protests military funerals while the grief stricken families try and say goodbye to their loved ones and this group has no real evidence that the deceased were gay or not, not that it should matter. The sheer fact that they spew this filth and hatred at the funerals is an obscenity and should be a criminal action.
This is just one of the religious nutcase groups that are out there and they truly believe that this type of behavior is legitimate and worthy because they are “Christians” and I guess, morally superior to others. I know many people that I consider true Christians and these groups of individuals aren’t one of them.
I am a woman with tattoos and I have had “Christians” tell me that I will go to hell for having them especially since I am a woman. How stupid is this? God doesn’t care if I have tattoos. Why should he? My tats don’t make me any different then when I didn’t have them and I wasn’t tattooed as a kid. I got my first tattoo at age 50 and now at 54 I have three and I am now a very vocal advocate for people with tattoos rights. You may not like tattoos but I’m not forcing them on you as some “Christians” force their beliefs on me. I am personally tired of religious tirades against those of us that don’t fit into their very narrow limits of acceptability.
I use Christians and “Christians” because there is a difference:
A Christian has their religious beliefs and also believes in not shoving them down everyone’s throats and don’t promote hate or discrimination against anyone be they gay, straight, male, female, Christian or non-Christian.
“Christians” believe that only they know what is acceptable and demand everyone else conforms to their ways or they damn you for it.
Which would you rather know? Which one are you?
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June 9, 2009
delaney55
13 responses to “Religion, Abortion, Gays, Tattoos – Or How to Piss Off People”
croneandbearit
June 9th, 2009 at 17:32
I agree with you D – I’m a Christian but even Christians can get carried away with taking the bible too literally – I firmly believe one day God will sort it out and reconcile ALL of us and we will all be forgiven regardless. We need to look at the big picture here and I think we are all getting caught up in the fanaticism and small-mindedness and that makes us no better than the Islamic nutcases who still beat women in the streets. I’m with you all the way kiddo. Why do you think I dropped out of the Southern Baptist Seminary – they were actually racist and I couldn’t deal with it because I know MY God isn’t racist – He loves ALL of us equally and doesn’t care what we look like. Oh, good grief I’m about to get on my soapbox – I’ve already blogged about the gay issue over at my place – and I have no problems with tattoos other than they use needles so that leaves me out! As for abortions, well I’m mostly pro-life, but I fully accept and defend a woman’s right to terminate her pregnancy especially if it is the product of rape – it has to be a personal decision not up to our government or up to our religious leaders. I’d like to see every baby saved, but it is unrealistic — who will take care of them all? I’ll shut up now. Cheers!
delaney55
June 9th, 2009 at 17:56
Thanks Linda :0)
These subjects just piss me off royally maybe because I came from an area that was very Live-and-let-Live and these were very non issues then moved into the middle of the Bible-Belt and have had to endure these nut cases. Hubby is always grabbing me to keep me from getting in THEIR faces when we run into them around here. When they showed up at things like college graduation ceremonies and concerts it was all I could do to not get into a verbal match with them because they just leave a bad taste in your mouth when you see the protest signs they carry that spews hatred not love and understanding which is what I prefer to see God as wanting instead of all the vileness.
Phelps and his followers especially turn my stomach and make me want to protect people from this type of bigotry and hatred.
Mrsupole
June 10th, 2009 at 02:55
Wow, lots of comments here. These must be touchy subjects.
I have to say that I thought the meaning of a Christian was someone who accepts Jesus as their savior. Not someone who goes around trying to force their beliefs on others. I know that they say Christians are supposed to go forth and talk about their religion. I cannot remember where it says they are to force it upon others. Jesus never forced it upon anyone. You either accepted him as your savior or you did not. I think that Christians who set an example of living their life loving their fellow man are following Jesus’s example a lot better than those that spew hatred. I think there are things that should be our choice. We are the ones who live and die with these choices. We can only try to do our best. Although when one makes one’s choice, one should be careful in how it affects others.
I have chosen to never get a tattoo because I just think of the pain and I have enough pain without doing something to give me more pain. I just look at the tattoo’s on other people and shudder. Plus, what some people call tattoo art just looks like tattoo grafitti to me. But on some people you can see the art and those ones do not look like grafitti. I think that some tattoo’s are tastefully done and some are not.
Plus, I am saying you are a brave woman to get one. As to the other things, some of it I mostly agree with and some I do not. But I do agree that there are some crazy people out there. And I am sorry that you had to go through such bad circumstances, but thankful you would have had a choice. And I am also sorry that you would have had to make a choice. Sorry that you had to put up with such fanatical people, no matter which side they are on. Rude is rude, that is what I say to my grandkids
God bless..
delaney55
June 10th, 2009 at 04:37
First, thank you for your comment, I appreciate it :0)
“I think that Christians who set an example of living their life loving their fellow man are following Jesus’s example a lot better than those that spew hatred.”
I agree with you totally on that point and wish more people practiced that. It seems like we are going through a spell of the wrong kind of example being set and hope to see that trend die out soon.
“…what some people call tattoo art just looks like tattoo grafitti to me. But on some people you can see the art and those ones do not look like grafitti. I think that some tattoo’s are tastefully done and some are not.”
So true and I can accept and agree with you as I have seen a lot of tattoos that are beautiful and others that weren’t. Art in any form is very subjective and everyone’s taste is unique so we all won’t agree with exactly what “art” is. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder even when it comes to tattoos. I also will admit that some individuals go to extremes that push boundaries, even going over the edge of reason but that can be true in lots of other areas as well. I just wish that the stigma that comes with having tattoos, especially for women would cease to exist. I wasn’t brave in getting my tats though I appreciate you thinking that, but after having quite a few different surgeries I can say that at least to me the discomfort of getting the tattoo is easily endured and I hate needles.
When we finally stop having people killing each other senselessly and stop all wars we may finally truly be at peace and one with God.
AnonGirl
June 10th, 2009 at 19:27
Well… I’m with you and I’m not. On all of it. Here’s me:
Abortion: I’m with you all the way up to the rape and incest and sickly babies thing and then I’m not sure where I stand. Now that I’ve had a pregnancy… he was definitely alive in there, even from the time he was a peanut on the sonogram.
Rape – Though the baby is associated with the terrible crime, is he to blame? Should he pay with his life? If convicted, even the doer wouldn’t have to give his life. That baby could bring so much joy to a childless adoptive family. BUT living with the seed of your attacker growing inside you… undescribable loathing.
Incest – Again, I don’t think the baby is to blame, and even the doer wouldn’t be punished with death. BUT there’s many medical/genetic implications and so many other bad feelings and situations if you carry the baby to term.
Sick Babies – If the baby would have a short, painful life anyway, and the pregnancy is jeopardizing the mom’s health, I say kill the baby. That’s just euthanasia, right? If the baby would have a short, painful life, and the pregnancy is not jeopardizing mom’s health…. I’ve known a few couples who were SO glad to have even those hospital ridden few months or that year… I don’t know.
Radical Pro-Lifers: How in the world is murdering a man _in_his_church_ okay, when killing babies isn’t? Murder is murder. Sin is sin.
Christianity: Matthew 22:36-40
36″Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37Jesus replied: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
And Jesus came to fulfill the law not abolish it. He loved us enough to die for us, a sacrifice for our sins.
It’s a lot more about the loving, not so much about the killing per se….
Tattoos: Some people would be trash, tattooed or not. Many people are lovely, tattooed or not. I’m just indecisive, so how am I going to pick something permanent? What one thing would always reflect my changing mood and thoughts? And I saw how my body changed with the first pregnancy, so where could I put it that it wouldn’t droop, sag, or otherwise alter? And getting past all that, actually picking something, deciding where I want it, how do I know that this tattoo artist is going to do a good job? I don’t want one of those poorly drawn or misspelled things I’ve seen on the internet!! I don’t have tattoos on my body because it’s just too much stress to even contemplate it! If you want tattoos on your body, do it. Hey, it’s *your* body.
Thanks for the post Delaney!
delaney55
June 11th, 2009 at 17:01
With the incest issue it is not just about the genetics issues but the woman/mother’s mental and physiological health. To be, in essence, raped by a relative since most abuse happens to younger girls/women in this case is difficult enough to deal with let alone carrying a child that results from this for 9 months in your womb. Compound this with the perpetrator of this vile act being your own father who you should have been able to trust above all others. You have been violated on so many levels prior to a pregnancy. I am more surprised when a women who has survived this doesn’t terminate the pregnancy then I am for those that do. I know I would not be able to carry a baby from this act to term.
Rape: do you live every day of the pregnancy knowing the violence that this child was conceived in and stay mentally healthy? Do you give up this child that you have carried yet wrestled with the anguish of how they were conceived, gone through birth then have to walk away? Giving up a child is the right thing if you can’t take care of them and in “normal” instances where rape is not involved, you are still talking a painful decision that you live with all your life and yes, it is great when a baby can be adopted. What I am saying is, does anyone of us have the right to make a raped woman carry a baby from this act if she chooses not to? I say “No” because that would be violating her again. I give the women who are courageous enough to live through a rape, carry/deliver a child and keep it, total credit for being very strong mentally, spiritually and physiologically which they would have to be and not all of us are that strong.
Illness: I saw a man I worked with a long time ago, go through one of the hardest things I have ever seen in my life. His wife was pregnant with their 5th? 6th? child. They are Catholic, in their 30′s and find out they are having twins. Excitement! Then, 3 months prior to delivery, they find out the girls are conjoined in such a way they might live for 5-10 min. after birth but definitely will not survive. I watched while this man went through the pain of knowing this, making funeral arrangements, then having his wife have a C-section then hold his girls for less than 5 minutes just to then bury them. What an awful experience and as Catholics it was not a choice for them to terminate the pregnancy. Would I carry to term knowing what they knew? I don’t know. That would be one of the most difficult times and hardest decision my husband and I would have to make – but WE would have to make it not someone else and that is the point.
These are difficult and horrible times with the toughest decisions anyone would have to make, but all women should be able to choose what to do for themselves and not have courts or other people make these decisions for them. No one can tell you or make you do anything you don’t choose to do when it comes to your own body.
steppingthru
June 10th, 2009 at 21:01
Anon Girl said it beautifully. I have three adopted grandchildren. I have seen the joy they bring my children and know that had they been aborted we would have been deprived of three beautiful little gifts from God. Their start in life was horrible but now they have loving families. I wish more women could see the gift they would be giving others by enduring the 9 months and then relinquishing their children.
As for the “religious nuts” out there. Well, that is what happens when people mean well and think they are doing the right thing but forget about the love and forgiveness that Jesus taught. God helps us when we forget who is in control and try to control things our way.
As for the tattoos…..I want one but can’t decide what or where. When I do, I’ll let you know. This was a very good post.
delaney55
June 11th, 2009 at 17:11
I wish more children that are not truly wanted would be put up for adoption because there are so many couples that would be great parents if they could adopt. There would be less abused children in the world and how fantastic would that be?
On tattoos: Since I didn’t do mine until recently, I don’t have to really worry about what it looks like later since that means I will be really old and by then, who cares? I know the places I can tattoo without it changing too much. Young women out there, forget the stomach cause it won’t be flat forever especially after kids so stick to areas that don’t change that much, it’s better in the long run. :0)
As to what designs, you pick what represents you and your tastes. I have a butterfly that means something about me, another butterfly/flower with my daughter’s name then my Geisha tat. These all have personal representation for me. To me, tattoos are more for expressing my feelings in a permanent way. Tats aren’t for everyone or every age. While I was younger it would have been a poor choice but now it’s not.
If you get one I so want to see a pic of it.
blueviolet
June 11th, 2009 at 14:16
Hi. My blog is back online but at a new url and I’m following you from MBC!
HarryLou
June 12th, 2009 at 16:07
You said: “I wish more children that are not truly wanted would be put up for adoption because there are so many couples that would be great parents if they could adopt. There would be less abused children in the world and how fantastic would that be?”
The closed adoption system of the 1930s through the 1980s caused no end of heartbreak to all in the triad. Babies were bought and sold. So many who are rootless in the world, have no history, maybe lived and died not even knowing they were adopted. Birthmothers were treated as objects of disgust, were told to go home and forget about it. As if.
delaney55
June 12th, 2009 at 16:31
We have a long and sordid past when it comes to things like the old adoption practices and even today baby selling is still in existence but unfortunately evil comes in many forms and there are people who will prey on the less fortunate. This has always been true and will continue to be a sad reality of life.
I am just happy for those fortunate enough to be adopted by loving and caring parents that really deserve children and I feel for the children that are left behind and not adopted for whatever reason.
coldwarning
August 9th, 2009 at 11:48
Good Post. Looks like the psycho-religious nutjobs have stayed away so far.
delaney55
August 9th, 2009 at 14:47
I’m surprised I haven’t had the wingnuts coming out of the woodwork since I touch on their favorite taboos :0)